Perhaps the winner is needy of an Uzi?

Next year they are giving away a Panzer… It had a cross on it thus making it a worthy gift…

Nope, rocket scientists are notorious Pastafarians.

A Navy Chaplain aboard the USS New Orleans, during the bombing of Pearl Harbor, coined the phrase to raise the morale of the men aboard. The phrase was picked up and made the chorus to the song by that same name in 1942. In light of the Japanese attack the song championed “righteous” retaliation. In the last few years, however, bands like The Dixie Chicks and System of a Down have used the term to condemn the role of religion (particularly in war).

Congrats on the promotion, SSgt. I think you are assuming that I am making a character judgment on those who own guns. I am not. I truly believe that people kill people; not guns kill people. However, I make a personal choice to avoid objects created specifically to engage, maim, and/or kill other people. I do not assume that those who own weapons will kill people. But I also do not assume that every weapon owner has the responsibility and reason to safely handle a weapon. Hence my objection to handing one out randomly to a teenager.

As far as marksmanship is concerned, all I said was that the AR15 model was not the rifle of choice. I did not say that it could not be used for marksmanship. Any projectile weapon (from a rock to a rocket) can be used for marksmanship firing… truly, it is rather the point to using a gun that you be able to hit the target you’re aiming for. But was firing at paper targets the sole reason why you purchased your M4? Wouldn’t you say that such would be a very expensive means for creating confetti? (Especially if you have the .45 variant) Why not use an air rifle, BB gun, standard .22 rifle, wrist rocket, etc.? Why? Because your primary reason for owning that rifle was not marksmanship. But, after you’ve made your complaint to Bushmaster (or Armalite as well), you may find that most target shooting competitions are held without the use of a weapon that has a shortened barrel, a collapsing stock, and a selection for 3 round burst fire (or full auto). The point of the competition being accuracy at range, not volume or close-quarters combat. You will tend to see weapons that are true hunting rifles, most often (but not always) bolt action… like perhaps a Remington 270. You will even see air rifles in these competitions, as well as pistols that employ wad-cutters. In marksmanship alone, having the choice of any rifle, and competing against your peers (military or otherwise), would you truly choose the M4? Doubtful… possible, but doubtful.

I do find it interesting that Charmin is the top selling toilet paper to hunters, since they they are using the product to wipe their backsides and that Charmin is not designed for hunting. Seems kind of odd that they would waste money on a hygiene product that will not kill any game while they are hunting… but then again, that would depend on what they’ve been digesting. Just because a hunter buys a product does not mean he’s using it for hunting. Also, the popularity of a product does not make it right morally, ethically, or legally… else crack cocaine would be considered an acceptable form of recreation.

Even if what you present is true (that the top selling weapon of hunters is the AR15; and that these hunters use this weapon for hunting), one must seriously question the reasoning of such a hunter on two grounds: (1) the ammunition tumbles through the target… for those of you who may be unfamiliar with this terminology, most high powered rounds make a clean through-and-through wound on their targets. Not so with the ammo of the AR15 (or the primary variant of the M4). Whether you call it 5.56 or .223, the ammo of this weapon enters the body of the target, loses the kinetic force to exit the target, and tumbles end-over-end through the muscles and organs of the target, shredding it from the inside, and often fragmenting the bullet (This is what makes the M16A2/AR15 so effective in combat). The use of tumbling ammunition risks contaminating the meat every time one fires (unless one can guarantee a head shot every time). Against small game you’ll turn your target into instant hamburger, or a burst furry water balloon. Thus, this is not a practical weapon for hunting. (2) Hunting with a rifle requires great accuracy. The AR15′s burst or auto fire selection destroys accuracy. Now if a herd of deer catches you in an ambush, by all means, go to auto and give ‘em hell. In single shot mode I can personally vouch for the accuracy of the AR15 (at 200, 300, and 500 meters) against a (note this) man-sized target; but it comes at greater monetary expense… and it is less accurate than cheaper, practical, more powerful, greater-ranged, true hunting rifles.

sorry SSG not SSGT

Just out of curiosity (no intention of causing contention or argument)… who among us has fired military hardware (or military grade hardware)? What did you fire?

In the USMC and in other government service I have fired the following:

M16A2 Assault (Service) Rifle
M203 40mm Grenade Launcher (M16 Mounted)
M4 Carbine
M4A1 Carbine (full auto)
AT4 Anti-Tank Weapon
MK19 40mm grenade launcher
M60 Machine Gun
M240G Machine Gun
M249 Light Machine Gun (SAW)
Browning M2 .50 cal Machine Gun (Ma Deuce)
Kalashnikov AK-47 Assault Rifle (live fire exercise)
Beretta M9 9mm Pistol
Browning .45 cal Pistol
Remington 870 12 Gauge Pump Action Shotgun

There are other weapons that I have handled in the USMC arsenal, but never fired (Ex: Mortars)

I’ve always wanted to try a Garand. I hear they’re very accurate at long ranges. I’ve thrown grenades too, and one cannot fire a MK19 or an M203 without those funky looking 40mm grenades. I’ve set up claymores, but they were only trainers, not live, so I’ve never seen a live fire of a claymore. FFE is a great thing to hear , especially if you’ve targeted quickly… I hate bracketing. My favorite firing experience has been the Ma Deuce… butterfly trigger, amazing cyclical rate, and outstanding distance…

My father collected WWI and WWII era Lugers. So when I was a kid I fired a few of these officer’s sidearms. An uncle of mine was a cop and allowed me to fire (on range) his .357 revolver (I think it was a Desert Eagle, but not sure). That is a scary powerful pistol.

Blitz, ever shoot off any dragon fire rounds while in Vietnam? I have a Vietnam Vet friend of the family who was a USMC tank mechanic turned tank driver. He was issued a shotgun with dragon fire rounds (white phosphorous). I have seen him fire a few, and boy do they make a purty blast o’fire.